Technorati Tags: homosexuality, and, ordination
Question from sean on 5/27/2008:
I ask this with great respect for the teaching athority of the church. The church teaches that being a homosexual is not sinful. To act on that tendency is sinful. no argument from me, i understand. the church further teaches that homosexuals are called to celebacy. the inconsistency that bothers me is that on the one hand there is the call to celebacy and on the other hand a distrust on the part of the church that a homosexual can live celebacy. the homosexual has a call to celebacy yet any homosexual with "deep seeded tendencies" is excluded from the priesthood and seminary. All homosexuals are called to celebacy but none are called to the priesthood. this seems like spin, scapegoating. it does not ring true. heterosexual men have deep seeded tendencies of attraction toward women. if a man does not act on them for the sake of the kingdom and by God's grace; why is the church so convinced that a homosexual with deep seeded tendencies can not do the same. Why does the church trust the heterosexual but not the homosexual to live celebacy. Celebacy is not a gift that a man gives to God; it is a gift that God gives to man. If God gives the homosexual that gift(and He does, (otherwise the church would not say homosexuals are called to it)then why not trust that call and the grace to live it? The church needs to clarify what is meant by "deep seeded tendencies". Sometimes language fails to communicate and makes bigotry acceptable without intending to do so. So it was, so it is, so it seems to me. in Christ, Sean
Answer by Rev. Mark J. Gantley, JCL on 5/27/2008:
It seems that your post is more of a commentary than a question.
I would point out one major distinction that you are neglecting is that being homosexual is disordered while being heterosexual is not. I think that this is the key issue in regard to ordination.
Also, renouncing marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God is a witness when it is by a heterosexual. If someone is generally known to be homosexual and renounces marriage, I am not sure what sign value is there.
Question from sean on 5/27/2008:
I ask this with great respect for the teaching athority of the church. The church teaches that being a homosexual is not sinful. To act on that tendency is sinful. no argument from me, i understand. the church further teaches that homosexuals are called to celebacy. the inconsistency that bothers me is that on the one hand there is the call to celebacy and on the other hand a distrust on the part of the church that a homosexual can live celebacy. the homosexual has a call to celebacy yet any homosexual with "deep seeded tendencies" is excluded from the priesthood and seminary. All homosexuals are called to celebacy but none are called to the priesthood. this seems like spin, scapegoating. it does not ring true. heterosexual men have deep seeded tendencies of attraction toward women. if a man does not act on them for the sake of the kingdom and by God's grace; why is the church so convinced that a homosexual with deep seeded tendencies can not do the same. Why does the church trust the heterosexual but not the homosexual to live celebacy. Celebacy is not a gift that a man gives to God; it is a gift that God gives to man. If God gives the homosexual that gift(and He does, (otherwise the church would not say homosexuals are called to it)then why not trust that call and the grace to live it? The church needs to clarify what is meant by "deep seeded tendencies". Sometimes language fails to communicate and makes bigotry acceptable without intending to do so. So it was, so it is, so it seems to me. in Christ, Sean
Answer by Rev. Mark J. Gantley, JCL on 5/27/2008:
It seems that your post is more of a commentary than a question.
I would point out one major distinction that you are neglecting is that being homosexual is disordered while being heterosexual is not. I think that this is the key issue in regard to ordination.
Also, renouncing marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God is a witness when it is by a heterosexual. If someone is generally known to be homosexual and renounces marriage, I am not sure what sign value is there.
Intrinsically, Christians want to avoid sin that offends God. We do not unilaterally harm God but we wreck our love relationship with Him by sinning. Created in His loving image, we fail to live up to expectations. All sinners need to take Jesus as Savior and Lord. He will keep us in His Father's loving will. As Lord, He bases and defines ALL sin as lack of love (Matthew 22:36-40). Such obvious sins as theft, murder and adultery are unloving because each has a victim, someone not receiving love. Please tell me, who is the unloved victim in a homosexual relationship? Neither is a victim, neither is unloved. Where is the hurt? Who could bring suit against the "sinner"? What Gospel writer or Bible prophet claimed homosexuality is sinful? (Jesus didn't!) These are not rhetorical questions; they are unanswered by those who refuse God's grace and live by working the law. How would you like to be the first to answer any one of them? If God didn't want men to have sex with other men, He would have said "Man shall not lie with man PERIOD (Leviticus 18:22, 21:13). God wanted Moses to eradicate rampant idolatry in the Jewish nation. That whole " . . . as with a woman" thing condemns straight men pretending to make it with a woman, such as during idol worship. Paul explains it further when putting down the straight Romans (1:26-28 ) and Corinthians (1 Co 6:9-11) for "leaving their natural relations" (i.e.... as with a woman) and having idolatrous sex with men. Gay men can only imagine what sex " . . . as with a woman" would be. We are attracted to other men by definition and by God. "Homosexual" was coined about 1865, so any subsequent Bible translation using that word is a lie that needs to be emended. It premiered in a1946 English Bible and has been condemning loving Gays ever since. What is the most love one can show another sinner? Offer them an eternity with God through the redemptive cross of Jesus. When was the last time you told a disgusting, abominable, disgraceful, unnatural, revolting and sinful homosexual that Jesus died for their sins? A problem is that Gays do not want to affiliate with unloving and judgmental Christians. Know Jesus, know love. No Jesus, no love.
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